Ethanol Azeotropes - Attn: EtOH cannabis extractors!

Great question, @Bonevader! @Roguelab @7000G @TrueScience …the denaturant does make a difference!

Using ebulliometry, the boiling point changes that occur for a solvent when solutes are dissolved in it, to tell concentration doesn’t work very well for a partial azeotrope. I’m sure you can guess why, knowing the definition or at least the concept of an azeotrope.

Using hydrometry, which IS literally a measurement of water concentration, most often in ethanol, is unlikely to work properly in heptane-denatured ethanol, specifically because of the biphasic (2 layer) liquid system and the differences in density between all 3 of them at a given temperature! Hydrometry uses the higher density of water than ethanol to determine their concentrations, relative to one another. Inside a transparent cylinder, filled about 2/3rds full of ethanol:water solution, floats the hydrometer; a precisely weight-calibrated, graduated, air-filled, glass ampoule-shaped bulb of neutral buoyancy (at room temperatures), which has a thin tube that protrudes to a measured height above the solution. Along this tube, atop the sealed floating hydrometer bulb, are horizontal graduation lines at which the meniscus of the liquid is read to determine the proof or ethanol percentage, and, by subtraction of the reading from the full scale (200 proof or 100%), the water percentage. The reading is also corrected for differences in density at temperatures above or below the normal room temperature of 20°C, by simultaneously reading a thermometer that is submerged in the same cylinder of liquid, and adding or subtracting points of the hydrometer scale to or from the hydrometer reading, as denoted by the temperature correction table, included with the hydrometer.

Now, knowing this sensitive density measurement is the basis for hydrometry, we must look at the density tables of each component. That is water, ethanol and the denaturant, n-heptane… or at least their temperature normalized densities (d in g/cm³ @ 20°C)
n-heptane = 0.6837 g/cm³
ethanol = 0.7894 g/cm³
water = 0.9982 g/cm³

Hmm… Well, as you can see, they each have very different densities, and since we do not actually know any of their concentrations already, figuring those concentrations out from density is like trying to solve a polynomial equation with 3 variable/constant pairs. If n-heptane had the same density as either ethanol or water, the hydrometer might be effective… but it isn’t. So now what? Well, we need some sort of combined density for these compounds with a known set of concentrations. Oh! Well we have the ternary azeotrope! As long as there is enough of each, we can distill some of the volume of this mixture at its precise azeotropic boiling point, right? Well… sort of. Let’s just go look it up to be more certain.

_________ b.p. . b.p.mix . % . density
ethanol w/ … 78.4 ------- … — . ---------
n-heptane … 98.5 . 70.9 … 51 . 0.729
or
water … … 100 … 78.1 … 5 . 0.804

and
… water … ethanol … n-heptane = Total, Up layer, Lo layer
%T 6.1 … T 33.0 … T 60.9 … b.p.mix 68.8
%U 0.2 … U 5.0 … U 94.8 … d.U 0.686
%L 15.0 … L 75.9 … L 9.1 … d.L 0.801

Ugh. So if we have the whole azeotrope in liquid form without layers (not really possible under normal conditions), then:
6.1% is water = 0.9982 g/cm³
33% is ethanol = 0.7894 g/cm³
60.9% is n-heptane = 0.6837 g/cm³ …right? Well, no. Water 5% and ethanol 95% have a special hydrogen bond induced density, and heptane 51% and ethanol 49% also have a special density. Therefore, the actual density must be ascertained from the Upper and Lower layers of the ternary heptane:ethanol:water bilayer average. Finally, a break in the fact that these 2 layers are split very nearly half and half! So the sum of 50% of each density is 0.7435, which is 50.5% of the sum of (ethanol+heptane) normal densities! Iow, it is almost equidistant (right in the middle) from heptane and ethanol’s normal densities. Confused? I am!

Basically, this means that if you keep the 2 layers agitated together, somehow, without altering the apparent density on the hydrometer with bubbles or vortexes, their average density composes about 95% of the actual ethanol:water density, as read by the hydrometer. So, as long as your liquid is on or pretty close to the hydrometer’s calibrated temperature (probably 20°C), you should be able to measure the density with a hydrometer, adjust for the actual liquid temperature using a thermometer and your little paper table that should have come with your hydrometer, then assume the water is about 1.7% higher than that adjusted reading.

Caveat: I am hella sleep-deprived, so feel free to tear my math apart!

Just a weird probably meaningless note I picked up in my research for this post…
By the way, there is some evidence to suggest that azeotropes are pressure dependent, and some are rather sensitive. Some sources say, for example, that the 95:5 ethanol:water azeotrope does not occur at reduced pressure! So vacuum distillation, alone, can allow ethanol to boil out of the 5% water in 190 proof! This is a rather promising theory, but sadly it is not entirely true when the 190 proof is mixed with other compounds, such as cannabis resin. However, it is still effective to “reproof” any 190 with excess water in it back to 190 proof by vacuum distillation.

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F@&$? You deserve all the respect and more :pray::pray::clap::clap:
In Europe we don t have heptane denatured ethanol
So my thought was azeotrpic water/etho denatured with 1% mek bitrex sorry for that
As usual that for your time hope sleep catches on to you quick

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@Photon_noir and deep explanations like this are why I keep coming back. Thank you for the learning opportunity, feels great to get deeper on this subject. Math looks good. Thanks again for that fantastic response.

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Sadly, in doing all that I forgot the final and most important point: Since heptane denatured ethanol is made with 5 gallons of heptane to every 100 gallons ethanol (185 proof or higher), and the allowable error is +/-5%*, we will never know the exact concentration of any of the constituents, especially after use and recovery, and the initial ratios are not the full azeotrope, anyway, so the math above does not apply… So using a hygrometer to measure proof of heptane-denatured ethanol will NOT work!

Sorry, folks. :sweat:

*See here: TBB Denatured Ethanol Formulary

§21.26 Formula No. 12-A.

Formula. To every 100 gallons of alcohol of not less than 185 proof add:

Five gallons of toluene or 5 gallons of heptane.

[T.D. TTB-140, 81 FR 59461, Aug. 31, 2016]

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Absolutely stunningly informative thread. I had to officially register just to say; Thank you @Photon_noir!!! I beleive this is at the root of a mystery I’ve been perplexed by for the past year: Why does it appear my recovered ethanol (denatured with heptane) never degrades below 96%, yet my extraction efficacy varies?? I will take steps based on what I’ve learned here, including looking into obtaining some SDA

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I’m not sure how serious people are about actually separating these three and note of the 12-a formula is that it’s may contain tolulene.

Out side of using mol sieves and anhydrous mgso4 or sodium sulfate…
Heterogeneous azeotropic distillation is something to look at if you’re really doing this. Use of tolulene as entrainer - likely can substitute heptane if you can distinguish your 12-a formula as such.

https://twin.sci-hub.se/6263/5461e3a1db6ea38b53da8125c2b39375/zhao2017.pdf

I just wouldn’t use 12-a but
Maybe we can build you an HAD system :man_shrugging:

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There’s was a deep rabbit hole last year with this solvent and the water soluble terpenes and other “alcohols” that super saturate after several washes make this just bananas and you cant make a terp gin alcohol with the dirty heptane so that’s sucks too
Can’t wven get drunk

Thanks for those obscure details on n-heptane denatured 200 proof ethanol. Since n-heptane and ethanol have rather widely differing boiling points, might a B/R Spinning band unit or 6 inch Pope WFE running in the background allow one to take advantage of the lower bulk price, and at the end of the day, or days… have his bottle of pure(?) heptane and the original 200 proof ethanol to work with? We have both units (if I can remember which trailer body they’re stored in…).

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All this said, if you are trying to remove water from Denatured alcohol, say with ethanol drying zeolite like ProofUp Beads, I would use a slightly excessive amount of zeolite to account for calculation errors. A hydrometer will get you close enough to guesstimate, and then dial in the difference based on temp/usage.

ProofUp Beads hold 20% of their dry weight in water. So you are seeking an over all weight increase of 20%. If weight does not go up the full 20% then you may have more zeolite than required.

At least thats my ham fisted way of suggesting a process flow drawn in crayon.

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CDA-12a only contains toluene if you absolutely give zero effort during sourcing. The reason 710 Spirits uses the term “Extraction Grade”, which didn’t mean anything prior, is that CDA-12a sold to the hemp/cannabis space is SPECIFICALLY n-Heptane denatured, at least by 710 Spirits and Carbon Chemistry.

The reason Toluene is even listed is that prior to use as an extraction solvent, the primary use of CDA-12a was as a fuel alcohol, thus no reason to select more expensive n-Heptane. That has changed in terms of what version of the formula is sold in this space.

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Using the HAD “heterogeneous azeotropic distillation) setup though and tolulene as entrainer was why — the use of heptane is instead of tolulene should be the same. Idk how the law works for selling reproofed ethanol but there’s some cost analysis someone could do.

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So… Reusing the same n-heptane 200 ethanol causes crappy yields with each reuse? We are extracting below -40 and have a nice golden (light green hue) extract. Trim runs average about 5% yield, no nug runs yet… The last 2 runs have been closer to 4% yield, could the denatured be the culprit??

Photon_noir

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Sadly, yes. It’s hard to tell with only a few runs, especially if you do not know the cannabinoid content of the biomass before you extract from it, but if you are certain you should get 5%, then yeah… though technically it is the water accumulation in heptane-denatured alcohol that causes it to separate into a water:ethanol heavy layer and a heptane rich supernatant layer which causes the lower efficiency.

However, you can use some of @Shadownaught’s proof-up beads or similar, or other methods described above to “reproof” the mixture, so it stops separating until it picks up enough water again. I don’t know what is most cost effective for you,not knowing your equipment, of course… but please don’t just “dump” it like some folks do!:confused:

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I know it’s an old thread, but something that we just ran into and figured I’d share the info in case this comes up for someone else. So here’s a real world example.

Fresh Heptane denatured Ethanol, we extract all but ~0.5% of cannabanoids (we can get it to zero, but wind up pulling loads of undesirables)

Recently, we have found 2.5% was being left behind with no parameters changed.

Using the hydrometer, we found fresh solvent to show 200 proof. Our current solvent is now 190. With pure eth, that would be ok… but with this denatured it is significantly causing loss of extraction efficiency.

So now we have to decide: reproof, purchase more solvent, or re-extract/change parameters.
The first two options are a balance of time/money, the last choice risks pulling in undesirables, and processing time.

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I thought, and in my experience, hydrometers were useless for measuring proof of heptane denatured ethanol.

How many pounds were extracted with the same volume of solvent before you noticed diminishing returns?

I have a thread on here somewhere about this topic. I’ve done this experiment several times now where I’ll extract the same source biomass, from the same package just split in half, with brand new hep denatured etoh and hep denatured etoh that has been in use for months (solvent that has been used to extract 200+ pounds of thc biomass, topping off with fresh solvent as needed). Yields are always within 0.1% of each other.

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You can setup a membrane system to remove the water and proof up to 95.5% ethanol/heptane without evaporation, to get it above 99% you’d have to evaporate the solvent

They say your extraction efficiency falls once you get more then 5% water

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I found by experiment, if I remember correctly, that fresh 710 Spirits (aka: CDA 12-A, “12a” or n-heptane denatured ethanol) measures 200 proof on a hydrometer. This just means the density of the whole (non-layered) mixture is equal to the density of pure ethanol… even though it is actually at least 5% heptane. This is because heptane’s density is lower than ethanol’s density, so the hydrometer sinks to read “200”… but if heptane is less dense than ethanol, why doesn’t the hydrometer sink lower (than pure ethanol) and read higher than 200?
One explanation could be a situation similar to water in ethanol, where water increases the ethanol density as each H2O pulls about 19 EtOH molecules tightly around itself. Maybe the heptane pulls a similar magic trick? One should be able to test this hypothesis with heptane & 200 proof ethanol (under a dry atmosphere) similar to the way it is demonstrated with water in open air.
Another explanation is the beginning of a biphasic (2 layer) system, wherein the majority of the heptane migrates to the top half of the volume… maybe there is already just enough water present to do that, but not enough water to appreciably change the apparent density of the nearly pure (200 proof) ethanol in the bottom half of the volume? This possibility is why the aforementioned test must be completely secluded from atmospheric humidity.

I also found empirically that fairly fresh, but post-extraction(s) “recycled” 710 Spirits measured 190 proof on the hydrometer. This meant that the amount of water mixed into it made the density of the bottom layer (the lower half of the volume, completely within which the hydrometer bulb hovered) equal the density of 190 proof ethanol… which makes sense if we consider that almost all the heptane hangs out in the upper half layer of the volume, and the lower half layer volume is only up to 0.46% heptane (assuming 5% heptane total × 9.1% of bottom layer for simplicity of math).
However, since we know there is some heptane in the bottom, and we know that heptane is less dense than ethanol & less dense than water, we would expect the bottom layer (if at the true 5% water of 190 proof ethanol) to be slightly less dense (reading slightly higher proof) on the hygrometer… Unless the previously explained magic trick works for heptane (We really need to test that!).
But (following the other explanation) because the reading was exactly 190, there may be more than 5% water comprising the bottom layer to balance the low density of the heptane at “190” on the scale. This also makes sense, since the amount of water in the upper layer is negligible at only 0.2% of the upper layer, so practically all of the water present is in the bottom half layer.

And just to piss me off…
The density of true 190 proof (95:5 ethanol:water) is 0.804.
The density of the bottom layer of the ternary azeotrope of 6.1%water : 33%ethanol : 60.9%n-heptane is 0.801.
So if the bottom layer “190 proof” reading is any indication, being so close in density, it could mean:
A. There is 1.65X the % of water (15÷9.1) as there is of heptane.
B. There is almost exactly 95:5 ethanol:water and the heptane effect is negligible.
C. My brain is imploding… again…
D. The water and heptane levels are balanced with one another in a fluid complex similar to a liquid crystal, as they both cluster numerous ethanol molecules around themselves in a sort of molecular mosaic emulsion.
E. It’s just a coincidence. CTFO.

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It was instant. Noticed on the first batch 2% was left in the biomass. ETH to biomass ratio is 4gal:1lb. We’ve never had a problem like this, and this ethanol is older. We have another batch that is newer so we’ll test against that.

@Photon_noir
Well I had a silly idea but had to try it. About 30ml of solvent, added 400ml of water in a sep funnel. Theory was maybe adding way more water would push the heptane out, but did not work, but supports theroy D.

I’m just curious if it would be worth taking the drum of solvent, identifying where most of the water actually IS, and treating that layer. But it’s looking more and more to save the solvent we’ll have to invest in proof up beads or a membrane and treat the batch as a whole.

Do want to note that the top of the sep funnel had a heptane smell more than ethanol, and the bottom layer was water with “no” eth. in it or solvents. Of course this was just smell and feel test and didn’t through the GC.

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It is very difficult to see the partition between the layers at room temperature… it helps to chill the whole volume if you want to see the layers. I believe the partition is right in the middle (assuming the vessel is 90° cylindrical), making 2 layers of equal volume, regardless of the amounts of the 3 liquids. Therefore, you should be able to pull the top layer from the upper 50% and the bottom layer from the lower 50%… but you might have to pull them at the same time at equal rates, since the partition may migrate continuously toward the center. By the same token, the layers you pull may also separate into 2 layers, each.

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So, how about I distill the ethanol out using a still, to eliminate the heptane and any water? Tell Me More | 710 Spirits® sells a denatured ethanol that would be good for extractions. Simple distilling isnt perfect, but it would allow for a better EtOH ratio.