Decarb under pressure to retain terps?

Terpene extraction post harvest, while drying is the best option. Even correctly dried herb (up to 35C, low huminity, low light, 2-3 days) looses 80% of volatile compounds.

Using steam distillation at atm. pressure at 98C it takes around 2-3 minutes but the terp profile will be changed due to oxygene and temperature degradation.

Very similar to Fractional CO2 extraction! Do you think there is any concern with the integrity once the terpenes are removed? Obviously your cold trap or steam distillation method may be a bit more gentle then CO2 as a lot of monoterpenes are lost. Can the flavor profile after reintroducing terpene be a true representative of the original profile before separation?

Maybe The biomass need to put in a few layers, Like grid floors to flow the vapour and terps, or can put all togheder in a tank warm apply vacuum and start the party?

It’s hard to preserve plant’s original profile. In reality you’d want to combine lighter, carefully distilled terpenes with heavier ones. And with all the polar ones as well.

Also the polar ones give taste while nonpolar while ok in vapes, eaten just taste bitter.

For instance hydrolates taste like the input material. It’s crazy but if you like let’s say a drink that actually tastes like weed, you only need the hydrolate as a base. And with steam distillation there is a lot of it as a byproduct.

Even terpenes harvested during SPD can by usuefull just in very small quantities. Mix very small amount with lighter terpens and you’ll notice that the whole profile becoms rounder and fuller.

If you extract one batch of flower in few different ways you’ll see that each extract is different and each is missing something. Then mix them all and see the difference.

16 Likes

Wow, @borysses ! Your recent posts here are PURE GOLD! You’re very kind to share your wisdom on the subject! I can tell you’ve actually done this before! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

5 Likes

Don’t let me started on polar cannabinoids :smiley:

5 Likes

Please do it

1 Like

Yeah, @borysses! Please feel free to speak your mind on anything you want… certainly, I am happy to read and respond to it! It is not every day that I see such interesting topics and ideas come up, so I appreciate it! :nerd_face:

1 Like

We should definitely start a new thread if there isn’t already one on it.

1 Like

Because: cross-link :shushing_face:

1 Like

Because: maths

Note that it’s wrong.

The all knowing one gave me the MW for THC when asked for THCa, and I was too dumb to notice it.

2 Likes

This calculator makes it pretty easy for dead reckoning.

1000g of THCa=127g CO2
127g/44.01g/mol= 2.885mol of CO2
2.885mol@100C in 10L headspace= 8.833atm or 129.8psi

7 Likes

Yep. Dey da bomb fo sure…



7 Likes

@AlexSiegel These devices look okay to use… worlds better than decarbing in sealed glass jars like you were telling me someone was touting the other day!

1 Like

They do look decent. For small scale operators I think vacuum would be less risky but if the equipment is purpose built, it should be fine.

Pressure relief valves > mason jar lids popping off.

I think the decarb in a sealed jar technique has been spread farther than I previously thought. It’s an accident waiting to happen especially when operators try to scale up the concept.

5 Likes

Just condense your terps back into the boiling flask. Same idea as trying to retain your volatile reagents under reflux during Fischer esterification. Carboxyl group isn’t going to spontaneously reattach itself to your THC and the terpenes will come right back down. Problem solved.

image

Everyone has been overthinking it. There’s my free tech.

18 Likes

Indeed, @AlexSiegel, and YES @MassTerpenes! This is certainly the way I’ve done it… albeit with a modular system of opposed electro-acoustic oscillators* driving the water-cooled proximal end of the liquid helium compression chamber chilling the distal cold head to about 77K (-321°F / -196°C) facing vertically downward and attached to the 9" heat sink I formed from strips of aluminum to make a thermal gradient coldfinger condenser clipped inside a small well trap to catch any droplets that didn’t freeze solid. :thinking: This was back in 2015, but I’ll bet that unit would work splendidly in a 3" tri-clamp opening in the center of the lid on one of these pressure pots… Ooh, especially with a thermos clipped over the heat sink! Do you think I could play with one of those @cyclopath?

*think “two piston-like speakers pushing sound waves into each other at close range” I.e., at controlled frequency to rapidly compress and decompress a sealed well of pure helium, where the amplitude is static and frequency modulates the temperature of the metal end of the well (cold head) being chilled by the repeated evaporation of the liquid helium inside it, which is reliquified by the pressure (assisted by water cooling above it removing latent heat of condensation).

Sure, it’s overthunk… but it gets the job done when the only gas/vapor I don’t mind circum"venting" condensation is CO2. (The pun insisted.)

3 Likes

The shortage of liquid helium for superconductors (think NMR) is drastic. I don’t see an industry popping up using it for decarbing.

3 Likes

As per @anon64373531 comment with Helium already being short in supply let alone pure liquid helium, is it necessary to use instead of say cold water, chiller fluid, or some combination? I have no doubt using the helium in the condenser obtains the best results. Probably also to consider is the overall length of the condenser with respect to the set mantle temperature.

1 Like

I genuinely appreciate your understanding of the circumstances surrounding Earth’s preciously limited helium resource @anon64373531 & @406_Chemabis, and I commend you both for speaking up on the matter (or lack thereof… sorry, insistent pun)!! Thank you!

That said, please rest assured that this is a hermetically sealed system containing a specific and finite quantity of UHP helium… and nary a mole at that! Although helium is among the most ephemeral of elements on Earth, and a peerless penetrant among all atoms which inevitably requires refilling in any receptacle, the mass inside my machine is maybe a mere mole at most; 3 going on 4 grams, give or get a centigram… and Godness graciously, the ghost of noble gas has miraculously maintained over minimum operating pressure, these past 7 years! :crossed_fingers:

3 Likes