Redacted… you know what to do lol.
4 Likes
Well said, and agreed. Interesting reading as well!
1 Like
That was who I was recommended to try and they are sending me three samples of their surfactant. $1 per gram on powders and 0.25 per gram on liquid surfactant
1 Like
You’ll be doing yourself, and your customers, a huge favor by only using natural, clean label ingredients that are GRAS.
Also, buying your surfactants isn’t going to work long-term. They’re very expensive compared to making your own, and you should learn the chemistry so you understand how and why.
Qsonica actually has the best equipment for the dollar (by far). The Q2000 is a great deal, we have 3 of them… (buy it without the chiller and save big $$ by supplying your own or using city water for cooling) Cannasol Technologies has Natural GRAS surfactant for $675/kg
BTW, Industrial Sonomechanics does not actually build all of their system… Qsonica and Dukane manufacture their power supplies…
1 Like
Oh cool! Another company selling modified coconut oil surfactant at stupid high cost, which requires a 5-6:1 SOR, has max oil load of 5% (w/w), and can’t be kept in a cold fridge or the coconut oil will solidify. Really great product you have there! LOL
By the way, Axxiom is selling their Goo, which I’m pretty sure is the same thing you’re hawking, and Industrial Sonomehica’s hawks, for $600/kg. Just in case anyone wants to spend less, 
Sorry, spammer, you’re reported.
And about your product:
I’m assuming your one part emulsifier uses modified coconut oil as the surfactant…and that you didn’t manufacture it. Because there are now three of you guys (Axxiom, Industrial Mechanics, and you) selling the same product, and I doubt any of your are making it in-house, even though it’s not hard if using Novozymes and Scholar. I bet there is a wholesale supplier out there with or a bioreactor and yeast.
A big issue with your product, if it’s modified coconut oil, like with Goo and ISM’s product, is it’s not stable at low temps. So if you put your emulsion into cold fridge the emulsifier will solidify, ruining the product. I know this because I have tested them and I have seen it happen.
Also, working with modified coconut oil emulsifier is a PITA. It takes forever to heat up so it’s fluid enough to add the dispersed oil phase, seriously affecting work flow.
And IMO, the biggest drawback to using modified coconut oil as the emulsifier is the SOR (surfactant to oil ratio). It’s so high at 5 or 6:1 for distillate that you can only make a 5% w/w dispersed phase (oil load) O/W emulsion.
I make 10% a.i. w/w O.W nanoemulsions with a plant based, natural, GRAS, and clean label surfactnat system I developed, using a Qsonica 2000, in about 45 minutes of processing time for large volumes. My surfactant system is stable even in the freezer, at low and high pH, is odorless, flavorless, and non-bitter. My nanoemulsiosn droplets are <50 nm. And stable for 6+ months without any changes to the emulsion. All at the cost of pennies compared to your fee.
So, what were you saying about your magical product again?
Actually…Industrial Sonomehanics makes their own large horns. The only thing Qsoncia sells Industrial Sonomchanics is their smaller horn.
2 Likes
Yup, I called it without even having to look at your site, LOL. You’re totally selling modified coconut oil emulsifier.
If anyone wants to know the ingredients to these products, just ask. They are very basic, water, modified coconut oil, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, yada, yada, yada.
Also, I forgot to mention a huge flaw in these products is they don’t include an effective anti-oxidant for the sonication of terpenes. Cuz, you know, mixing terps and distillate in beverages is where we’re going. Vitamin E and ascrobic acid aren’t especially effective antioxidants for teprenes or cannabinoids while they’re getting exposed to cavitation. There is one natural anti-oxditant that does work very well with terpenes, and therefore should also work really well with cannabinoids.
I already listed the only emulsifier in the system: modified coconut oil. Use Google Scholar to find more about the different types of modified coconut oils which act as emulsifiers. These are enigmatically modified, which can be done with purchased enzymes or a bioreactor with yeast.
1 Like
Our product does NOT contain any modified coconut oil, it is also free of polysorbate 80 and PEG, and FYI, our surfactants to oil ratio is less than 1:1 (when used in the recommended ratio of 4 parts Pre-Mix: 1 Part Active), and our product does contain both water and oil side antioxidants. Our Nano Pre-Mix is NOT similar to what axiom or industrial sonomechanics is offering. Our product can be loaded up to about 7% active ingredient without sacrificing particle size. We have been converting many Axiom and ISM clients to our product over the last year because it is truly better. You can think what you want, but if anyone wants to try out the product we would offer a sample for free.
If anyone can achieve a stable Emulsion with a 40 nanometer volume-weighted average particle size on their own without using Polysorbates or PEG, they clearly know what they’re doing and they may not need our product… For those who would like a turnkey top-tier emulsification solution, we offer reasonable prices and the best support out there. And, I’ll mention it once more, free samples
Oh really? Sure…why don’t you share what it is then?
LOL, “when used in the recommended ratio of 4 parts Pre-Mix: 1 Part Active” so you don’t even understand what SOR is…great 
That’s also why I know it’s modified coconut oil, because of the SOR is so crazy high.
The SOR on my surfactant system, which I described in my previous post, is 0.5:1. Which means I can fit in 10% oil phase, and my surfactant system is good enough to get 10% oil phase to <40-50 nm in 45 minutes.
And it sure if funny that you sell the EXACT same container that ISE and Axioom do, and they both sell modified coconut oil, which also has to be refrigerated:
And it sure if funny that three different companies all sell an identicaal product, and all three claim “patent-pending” status… 
Why I don’t I just call up Qsoncia, and check your credentials? And then ask them about this…
I don’t care if you call it something other than modified coconut oil, because that’s what you’re using. Call it what you want, I don’t care. You got called out for a grossly inferior product at a crazy high price.
Lastly, please address these points:
- What is the max oil load you recommend?
- What is the minimum temperature a 5% oil load finished emulsion may be stored whithout affecting the emulsion?
- What is the prep for your product - is it an yellow-light-orange goo that you need to heat up to >50’C just to mix in the oil phase?
- And I could go on…
BTW, I wouldn’t be going this hard at you if you weren’t acting like a spammer and if you were charging a reasonable price for your product.
2 Likes
Yeah, I know! I wrote that last night. The reason I know your product has water, vitamin E (the anti-oxidant), potassium sorbate, yada, yada, yada…and modified coconut oil, just like Axiom:
Also, vitamin E is not an effective anti-oxidant for sonciating EOs, terpenes, and probably cannabinoids (considering they’re related to terpenes).
You’re not sharing what’s in yours either
1 Like
I’m not selling mine. And no one has asked.
I use mine in-house.
1 Like
Surfactant to oil ratio is the ratio of surfactant to the ratio of oil in an emulsion. What you fail to realize is that our premix is mostly composed of material that is not surfactant (in fact a good portion of the premix is actually water) and the premix does contain a carrier oil. Both of these facts imply that the surfactant to oil ratio of a product produced with our premix would be far below the 4:1 usage ratio. In fact it’s less than 1:1.
The container choice is purely coincidental . Turns out there are only so many containers commonly available for products of this volume with wide mouths. We manufacture our premix in house.
Another thing that’s quite unique about our product is it is designed for high processing temperatures of 60 to 70° C. At a 5 to 7% active ingredient load, on a q2000, you should be able to process at least 5 L per hour and achieve a particle size of 40 nanometers.
I’ll answer the rest of your questions in the next post
I don’t fail to realize that. I know that. I probably used Goo before you started selling your product…
What you’re missing is the point: A high SOR is bad for quite a reasons, and limited oil phase load isn’t the only one.
All I’m pointing out, is your SOR is very high, and that is very indicative of modified coconut oil.
Like I said depends on your active, but most of our clients have no trouble going up to 6.5-7% active ingredient load.
Our emulsion does not suffer from refrigeration issues. At 5% active ingredient it’s totally stable refrigerated for months on end we don’t have data on the higher concentrations, but I wouldn’t imagine it would be an issue.
Call Qsonica if you like, and ask them who they recommend. They will tell you they recommend us over axiom
Last tip: That’s not a good thing for our industry. You’re customers should be processing around 30-35’C. This has to due with densities, infacial tensions, effects on a.i., and so on…
Which is right in line with modified coconut oil max loads.
What is your surfactant, then, if not modified coconut oil?
I’m out. I’ve said my peace. People can make up their own minds. But a tip: don’t act like spammer.
Sirextractalot, would you try out our premix if We sent you a free sample? Message me with your address and I’ll have one sent to you.
I don’t, but thank you for the offer. I’d rather you tell us what your sufactant is, if not modified coconut oil.
It’s actually three surfactants. that’s another thing that makes our product a bit unique. It’s a synergistic blend of three. We only share the ingredient identities with clients, and we usually require them to sign an ingredients disclosure agreement. If you like our product enough to commit to buying a larger quantity of it, we would share provided you signed the agreement with us.