are there any Ethanol CRC systems or are they all based on using hydrocarbons?
The search bar will be your friend, check out the lostbiologist bucket tek thread. And the other thread that I think is labeled “ethanol CRC”.
The TLDR is most of the bleaching clays work only minimally in polar solvents (which ethanol is) except for activated charcoal which impacts yield fairly substantially and also can cause pH issues/red coloring.
That is interesting. I have been all over threads so thanks for the direction. That actually makes sense because prior to removing the chlorophyll our color was better than doing a cold AC scrub and less red then a room temp AC scrub. However, prior to the AC we were getting that gray/green with oxidation turning purple as opposed to now our color is deep red with standard redish oxidation but looking neon green out the tap.
When you say out the tap I assume you mean after distillation? I think I’ve read what that probably is but I might as well be speaking through a snorkel because I’m a bit out of my depth.
Generally, adsorption always work better at higher temperatures. Chemically, the stuff is more inclined to reach equilibrium if there is more energy in the system (or at least that’s how my little head looks at it). The reason I think people have such massive issues with AC turning stuff red is largely pH related. Presumably, the same rationalization about the adsorption applies to pH adjustment of the oil/micelle stream. Purple screams pH problems. If I was looking for a solution to your problem, litmus paper would be the magnifying glass that I’d use.
Thats interesting. The purple oxidation was caused without using the AC so maybe the moisture was the cause of the PH change? Since after AC the oxidation was more standard. Does not sound like the AC had too much effect positively on my final product so would you recommend skipping and trying clay or continuing with AC and adding Clay? I have seen some people love the combo however I am used to hydrocarbon extractions so adding all these foreign elements without a scientific background is a bit overwhelming. Also worried about carry over if not filtered properly. I have been reaching out in the thread you mentioned. Thanks again.
also, yes out the tap was referring to my final distillate product. haha my lingo is not exactly the most descriptive.
Ok so, let’s start at the top. Pink, red, and purple are usually the result of oxidation from what I’ve read. This oxidation can be significantly sped up by pH imbalances and red/pink suggest low pH and purple suggests high pH. Regardless of pH though, the cause of your oxidation might be that you’re providing an environment likely to cause oxidation (imagine that). If the red is only/largely after distillation, I’d check for leaks during distillation.
Water isn’t going to be the cause of pH issues. Depending on how your lab uses extraction solvent though, it may cause you to extract a lot more junk that adds color. You can check this fairly easily by using a hygrometer to check your ethanol proof.
What water will definitely do is make all those bleaching clays fuck useless. The reason we call it Color Remediation Chromatography is that it’s based on the same principle as real chromatography: some compounds are adsorbed more aggressively by some media than others, largely because of polarity. This is certainly not the only reason for preference in chromatography but it’s by far the most common.
T5 and B80 and all these other bleaching clays are much more likely to make polar compounds stick to them than nonpolar compounds. This is actually the case with most adsorbents other than the really expensive polymer coated C18 silica and active alumina. What that means though is that a polar solvent can easily compete for the affinity of that adsorbed compound from these media. Since water is about as polar as it gets, even a little bit will mess up that equation.
Disclaimer for future readers: listen to the people who know what they’re talking about first
Edit: forgot to mention you should search azulene to solve your green issue
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definitely makes sense. I just dont think an air leak would cause the fog/condensation I am seeing through distillation or decarb. That is also super worrisome that moisture would cause the clay to not function properly however I figured if there was water in my tincture it would freeze and coagulate at the bottom which I have experienced before and just pulled it out back when I was doing my first CBD isolate and recovering pentane in a little dry ice rig I had made. This makes me believe there is moisture retention in one of the properties not being fractioned out. Which was why I was attempting the clay. most of the oxidation im concerned about is in the processes and not after distillation. I am accustomed to oxidation rings on the top of distillate. That I am not concerned about but the deep red throughout is what is concerning.
Hygrometer is new to me. Thank you.
I do appreciate the recommendations.
It can if you didnt devolitalize the crude
A leak is 99.99% of the time the cause of this fog. Dollars to dubloons I’d look there.
I’m not sure what your regulatory requirements are or ventilation/safety measures but since you mention pentane, let me suggest something that works well for us:
Either dissolve/extract your oil into heavy alkane (Heptane or hexane, I prefer hep).
Or
If you are starting with an alcohol tincture, louche the oil into the alkane by mixing the tincture with the alkane and adding 20x the mass of alcohol in water and shaking/mixing/whatever
Run the alkane solution (which now contains most/all of your cannabinoids) through a drying agent. 3A zeolite is great, baked Epsom salt will work as well. Use a bunch; this will pull the water out of the alkane (it can’t hold much as it is).
Filter your alkane through a cake made of whatever bleaching clays you like (I use mostly just B80 but I’m trying W1 and S55 this week). Use a vacuum regulator (I like the cheap SMC ones) so as to not boil the solvent (why I prefer heptane to hexane).
Recover your solvent like it was alcohol and take your oil into distillation. Use enough magic dirt and you can make your oil as clean as you like. Yields may vary like mileage.
Check your pH throughout by washing water against the hep/hex. If it’s not fairly neutral, try to find the cause (usually the magic dirt). If you can’t, adjust accordingly with MgO or citric acid. Remember, you cannot measure the pH of an alkane solution and alcohol solutions will usually read somewhat acidic.
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oh man. all of that sounds like a nightmare 
haha have you ever ran a VTA VKL70? now that you say leaks could cause that sort of issue it makes me think there are massive airleaks in the gear pumps. I bought them used from an old partner and they dont seem to get down in vac or maintain it without material in the pumps. Also, now that you mention it I believe our decarb may have a small leak. However, our vac parameters meet normal standards. Do you believe that so much moisture could be gained from that? I am in Southern California so humidity is negligible (or so I thought).
I am working under the parameters of a type 6 license so I am restricted as to solvents. Unfortunately. So I love the remediation knowledge but very concerned with addressing and fixing the issue rather than constantly remediating product since we have a large demand to meet. I can provide pictures of what I am talking about tomorrow for more detailed illustrations.
first place I noticed moisture was late in decarb. after recovery we have a small bit of ethanol to purge out in decarb (as im sure most do) but late in decarb I began noticing the moisture on the coils and could not be sure if it was from air leak or from material.
I was assuming the moisture had something to do with extraction whether its condensation or freezing moisture in the air or the melting of frost on the outside of the cup leaking in. Not sure. Delta Separations is so sorry and has such bad customer service they have been ducking our calls since their sorry installation. I would recommend not purchasing anything from them. Especially their DC40. The designer (in quotes) said after installation “yeah idk what they are talking about, the tincture turns green instantly upon contact with the solvent for me too”
I miss hydrocarbons
I am new to this forum and love the community behind it. That is why I am giving my opinion on Delta Separations. However, if I should bite my tongue please let me know.
Water can come from two things.
Shitty extract (not cold enough to not extract the water)
Not pure alcohol.
How long have you used your alcohol? Alcohol needs to be redistilled otherwize it will slowly become 70/30.
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Check the ph of all compounds before use a traspoon in a ethanol shotglass
Wait 30 min and take ph
The purple is coming from a ph inbalance might even be a foliar spray on biomass
Moisture in your extract is almost certainly from your alcohol. If you get too far away from the azeotrope, when you recover your alcohol you’ll leave water behind. In theory you should be boiling that water out during decarb and as long as you take reasonable measures to keep it dry between decarb and distillation you should be good. This is not the case if you drop down to 160 proof and leave a whole bunch of water in the oil though.
I’m not real familiar with wipers but I assume your gear pumps should be flooded all the time if they are being used for discharge. Oxygen coming in and contacting your hot distillate is definitely going to make some stuff oxidize. Especially if there is a pH issue.
Using media to scrub crap out before distillation will reduce the amount of stuff that is around to oxidize. Scrubbing between 1st and 2nd pass distillation seems to be the most effective but adds a bunch of work.
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I imagine you pointed out the issue. Our ethanol is brand new. We even bought a fresh drum from a different supplier to make sure it was not the alcohol. It must be with extraction.
between distillation sounds like a nightmare. I am currently about to do our usual extraction (while preparing to modify in order to reach and maintain proper temps) then let warm to room temp. After its at room temp I will do a pass over a carbon filter followed by either a mix of Tclay tincture then filter or make a cake and filter over that. Followed by a pass over micron filters. Potentially back through our particulate filter if a standard 10 um will not catch all residual AC and Clay.
I attempted to boil the water out of decarb but just ended up burning the product more than hoped for.
all media filters before recovery I should add. As to not add any heat until these properties are removed.
Right, you absolutely want to make sure you remove any adsorbents prior to decarb because you’ll risk isomerization.
A couple suggestions that might help you:
You can prepare your clay and AC in the same filter puck, it will save you a step.
I recommend filtering your cryo micelle while still very cold with some sort of fine particle filter (celite bed over .2 um filter would be standard). This is necessary to remove any kief/fines that will continue to color your extract as it warms up. There are a ton of good “inline” options to make handling easier.
Still allow your micelle to warm up before doing the AC and bentonite because it will work better. I recommend a similar particle filtration after the adsorbent scrub because you want to keep the fines out. A bed of celite underneath your AC/bento works well in this regard. 10um is not sufficient.
Lastly, I would check/record your pH after extraction and again after your polish. It would not be surprising at all to see that your AC made the oil acidic during the polish, which will certainly lead to reddening during distillation (and potential isomerization)
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we currently use and Admiral particulate filter between and after each saturation/extraction at 5um,1um,and .5um. I will pop that out and run our post scrub solution through there. Thanks on the tip. unforunately .5um is the lowest I have right now. I could use more than one to help mitigate. Thanks again for the tips.