Again I was just trying to get in contact with someone who has experience with chromatography, I didn’t have time yesterday to put together a full post. Regretting this now, and yes please if you could connect me that would be great!
Thank you!
Thank you for breaking down some of the process so I can better understand, from what I have been reading this is something that is going to be impractical to do in this large of scale/ time.
I apologize if my response sounded a bit harsh, but the ultimate point I’m trying to make is that this sort of application requires more than just deep pockets to achieve. It requires knowledge and research that is not easily bought. I personally went down the large-scale chromatography rabbit-hole for some investors with “deep pockets” that thought they could just buy whatever they needed to make 100kg/hr of chromatography happen. They did not appreciate finding out that they needed about 10x more money and 3-4 years to get off the ground! I suppose this is my tough love way of warning you so you don’t end up in a similar tricky situation as I did.
For that project I ran some basic numbers and put concepts together for a large Interchem flash chromatography unit and a Rotachrom CPC unit including the crazy solvent recovery requirements. Additionally I had meetings with a ChE head regarding developing SMB parameters and expectations. If you’re interested, let me know and I’d be glad to answer some questions for you if it would help point you in the right direction on your proposal.
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Yes, I appreciate the insight, that what I’m here for. CBD and hemp is still very new in my area, I’m having to pick up on things quickly. From what I have been learning in the past 24 hours lol I don’t think flash chromatography is going work, Im thinking CPC is the best option. Do you mind if we chat over dm?
The cpc at most will remove 20liters a day. I have a cpc-i from rotachroam
Your best bet is acid salting and selective decarbing. And removing neutrals. Via salting again.
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Chromatography is proven… but capacity is limited. For $1M spend, you might do 20 kg/d… if you now what you are doing. In any other business, this would be a no brainer on payback. Investors in this sector are greedy, and spoiled… Can you make good money right now??? Absolutely, but…
There will be a disruptive technology… what will it be? New genetics? Ionic liquids? Membranes? Catalytic conversion? Nail this problem, wrap up the IP, and you shall be wealthy, and you investors… 
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These arent requirements put out by the department of Ag or whoever oversees cannabis. These are NFPA and NEC requirements for building, electrical, and fire code. They are absolutely requirements to build any type of hazardous building/process.
I currently run this equipment and build out these facilities. feel free to DM me if you are interested
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bruh what happened to 40kg a day?!?
we do 29/day on ours
For the purpose of cannabinoid isolation, if it goes beyond main thc, cbd or cbg, I"d say that 100k is not even sufficient for the analytics. And I’m just dealing with the hardware, the easiest part to find.
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Please explain ?
Analítics
Thar is solid, but also a long way out on delivering large scale chroma. I have a thar extractor and have been to their PA facility 4 times in the past year. Last I was there they where still dialing in the 10cm pilot scale chroma rig. I got a quote on their 30cm, just under 1mill with a solvent flow rate of 18kg/min, but my understanding is they aren’t really ready to receive orders on that.
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I had a hell of a time just trying to get them to answer phones or call me back.
There’s a company out of MA using SFC that does it very successfully, I think their equipment may be their own though
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Ya, Thar is overextended right now. They are making a bunch of large systems for themselves and pushed off most new orders.
Are you referring to Phasex in MA? We ran a few batches through them with ok results. They where able to make NDT ‘T-free’ and compliant distillate but stripped most of the minors and would not release the mothers liquor to us because it is not compliant (though they had no problem receiving hot distillate…) They would not let us in past the front door and would not elaborate on their claims of running only SFC.
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Yeah thar is focused on them selves and yes phasex. I know a bit about their equipment and why they won’t release minors (besides the fact that they obviously commute with thc). But as far as price and throughput they’re doing well. They will get their method down to retain minors separate from thc eventually, I hope.
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Before you do anything look at SixthWave technology. This the next revolution in Chromotography
We sure had a lot of interest in them, but they disappeared off the site the minute people started asking tough questions.
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To put this in quantitative terms, based on the cost of $6000 (real list price) for a large 3kg reverse phase column and $115,500 for a CPC 1000Pro (real list price), one would only have to purchase $115,500/$6000 = 19.25 large 3kg reverse phase columns before spending the same amount as a single CPC 1000 Pro column. If the reverse phase column is run constantly for full 9 hour working days and assuming 1.5 hours per run, that’s 9/1.5 = 6 runs a day. Also, assuming a single column can be reused about 18 times, then after three working days (18 runs/6 runs a day = 3 days), it will have to be disposed of. So after a mere 19.25 x 3 working days = 57.75 working days, one would have spent the same amount of money on consumable columns as the amount that a CPC 1000 Pro column, which can last for decades. This does not even factor in the recurring costs of solvents, which the CPC can consume up to 2x less of, and the cost of downtime due to fixing leaks or waiting for backordered columns to arrive, or other common potential problems. Feel free to run the calculation based upon the prices you get for columns, but I’m confident that no matter how you calculate it, the CPC pays for itself relatively quickly when taking these factors into consideration and will end up being a much more economical and sustainable solution long term.
You also lose visibility to minors with flash, those valuable compounds bind with that silica column. With CPC, everything is liquid to liquid which means everything you inject is collected on the backend.
CPC is not easy, it takes a level of chemistry and chromatography knowledge to become successful, but Gilson has helped us get there and we love their CPC1000PRO. Also heard they’re launching an industrial unit later in 2020. You’ll want the bench top unit first for method development.
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I’m a consultant now, but have experience running CPC systems from Armen in the flavor industry. CPC has been around for decades…just been curiously following it in this industry. A lot of misconceptions about it, just thought I’d put in my two cents.
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