Athena nutrients analysis

I always welcome it when people question my statements, it can lead to clarifications and may also help me improve if what I said was wrong (hey, I am far far from perfect).

In this case, my statement was too broad and wrong in the large scheme of things.

You are right in that potassium has specific transporters and, in general, Mg does not antagonize K uptake in higher plants due to the presence of specific K transporters that Mg never competes with. This is especially true in plants that have high K demand (tomatoes, cucumbers, bananas, etc). The opposite case, where K antagonizes Mg, is the much broader case, as K does compete with the more common non-specific channel transporters used by Mg.

There is no widely recognized Mg antagonism of K uptake. Although there are some published experiments in specific plants that show this happening, they have not been thoroughly reproduced in the literature.

My statement about cannabis and Mg antagonism comes from some information from leaf tissue data. The graph below shows you the relationship between K and Mg levels for the same strain across many different crops, taken at the same time in flower. Data I have collected seems to show what seems like a strong antagonism of Mg to K. For this particular strain, high K only seems possible under lower Mg in tissue.

From my experience, cannabis does not seem to be a strong uptaker of K, it rarely drops K concentration below its initial concentration in the nutrient solutions in DWC and K doesn’t increase proportionately in tissue when K concentrations are increased in solution. Cannabis plants will resist K accumulation beyond around 3.5% in tissue - per my experience - while other plants will happily take K to 6-7% when fed ample K.

This leads me to believe that the plant might lack large numbers of K specific transporters while it might have a significant number of Mg2+/H+ specific transporters. If it is using a substantial number of non-specific transporters for K+ transport, then K might be antagonized quite effectively by Mg, per my previous assessment.

With all that said, I recognize I have done no research on transporters in cannabis roots, nor do I have unequivocal data showing that Mg always antagonizes K. Although the above data shows this behavior for one strain for which I have a lot of data, I have indeed seen cases where high K and high Mg in tissue coexist (as in @Cropster tissue).

Given that Mg antagonism of K is rare, much stronger evidence than what I’ve presented here would be needed to validate this conjecture. I apologize for making such a broad statement without enough evidence.

@Broggemann Thanks for posting this very important clarification. Feel free to correct my statements in the future or ask for further clarification if they conflict with any information you might have.

5 Likes

I have asked several of my research colleagues about this seemingly odd Mg/K antagonist behavior in cannabis and it turns out that they may have some similar hypotheses from recent research in cannabis nutrition.

So stay tuned for research from Bruce Bugbee’s group in Utah State and Nirit Bernstein’s group in Israel for some exciting insights into Mg nutrition and its relationship with K later this year. In particular Nirit’s group will likely publish a full paper on Mg nutrition and its relationship with all other nutrients.

9 Likes

This is super interesting. I stumbled across this post while skimming this thread.

I see this topic of hollow stems is one of those things that growers seem to have many different explanations for, most of them probably incorrect.

This new-to-me (I know it’s not actually new) world of using tissue analysis and other hard data to guide the growing environment and plant nutrition is fascinating to me. The last time I was growing commercially was in the times of countless different “booster” and “flower enhancer” type products (ie Advanced Nutrients) and all I could do to solve problems was just asking the local “pros” who would likely tell me to add more calmag.

Anyway, I thought I would bump this thread because there’s a lot of good info in it.

In the general horticultural industry there are products called “greeners” which are products you apply when you have plants showing yellowing and you don’t want to spend money figuring out exactly what it is, so you just spray “greener” and it fixes the problem a large percentage of the time. In the regular industry these are often N, Fe, Mg containing foliar sprays.

CalMag is the cannabis’ industry “greener”, a product that fixes a bunch of potential issues without necessarily figuring out exactly what’s wrong. Of course, learning to fix the specific problems and not using a “generic tool” can sometimes lead to much better results and much more cost effective growing (as excess use of calmag causes its own problems).

Quantitative analysis of plant tissue, solutions, etc, opens up the way to much better growing, but it is not the only way to grow.

2 Likes

I ended up fixing my hollow stem issue by keeping calcium the same and lowering my nitrate. It wasn’t very far off but enough to make a huge difference.

2 Likes

My plants look really bad running athena

Purple stems, Mag def. What am i doing wrong :frowning:

I see this post is originally from 2021. With the updated Core label the 3g Core+5g bloom does = 2.11 ppm Iron in solution

Have you tried Mag Sulphate?

Are you still using this formula and if so how are you liking it? Any tweaks?