For those following along at home, OP has written a lot of words but the answer to this is still âlol noâ
1 Like
The funny thing is, the states that didnât ban 7OH have a 12%-40% reduction in overdose deaths. The states that did ban them are seeing an increase in overdose deaths.
When was the last time you went 30 days without caffeine? I was drinking 4 energy drinks a day, quit cold turkey once. I was sick for 2 weeks. Headaches, unable to stay awake for longer than 4 hours in a row without a 20 minute long nap. Took 3 weeks to get back to normal. That is wayyy worse than the 1-3 days people experience with 7OH withdrawal.
I donât take 7OH, itâs not stimulating like mitragynine, but I think its wild that people are calling it the ânextâ opiate crisis. If it was a dangerous as people anticipate it to be, then we would already be seeing a rise in deaths/ER visits. But we donât. Go to your local ER. Ask the doctors there if they have heard of 7OH. They probably havenât (although they may have now after the RFK press conference). They have heard of weird fentanyl analogues though, because those cause ER visits.
If youâre on the âban 7OH trainâ I assume youâre paid by big pharma at this point.
2 Likes
Because âBig Pharmaâ is pumping fentanyl into the streets? They may have started the crisis but itâs the black market fueling it now. I donât think 7OH is some miracle thatâs helping curb it, if anything itâs probably introducing more people to nodding and making it more accessible.
4 Likes
You can think whatever you want that doesnât make it true.
And obviously big pharma isnât supplying 100% of the fentanyl on the streets, but obviously people donât just overdose on fentanyl. Stop being willfully ignorant. A lot of those black market pills are prescription pills that turn into black market pills.
Youâre pretty willfully ignorant yourself dude. Good luck with your miracle substance. I know for a fact the withdrawal from 7OH is WAY MORE intense than caffeine. ITâs not even fucking close. But iâm sure you have no conflict of interests in this either, surely youâre not filling your pocket book and biased af. You sound like pfizer telling us how good the jab is.
2 Likes
whereâs this statistic from?
1 Like
https://www.reuters.com/press-releases/experts-call-for-evidence-based-7oh-regulation-2025-07-07/
These arenât the sources I am referring too, I am looking for it, but they are interesting to note. I will try to find it. It was an article that was fact checking Matt Gaetz, who claimed a 40% reduction and was corrected to 12%-15%. What is obvious from CDC data is that since 2023 â when kratom extracts and 7OH started to become popular â is that overdose deaths have decreased by about 24% (and I saw one CDC publication touting 27%). Which is extremely high.
EDIT:
One of the main questions facing regulators is whether 7OH poses a public health threat. According to a 2023 review by the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (EMCDDA):
âTo date, there is no significant presence of isolated 7OH in street markets or emergency room admissions. Most related events stem from unregulated kratom extracts.â
Additional review of toxicology panels from 12 U.S. counties with high overdose rates showed 0% detection of 7OH in postmortem screenings (County Coroner Data, compiled 2023).
EDIT: I canât find it easily, when I get home Iâll look a little bit harder for it. Or Iâll just look it up myself. We have the list of states that banned 7OH and we have overdose death statistics by states as well. Should be easy enough to do in a spreadsheet. Or does me running the numbers myself not count. Do you need an authority figure to tell you what to think?
I already said I donât do 7OH, I donât like the feeling of it. I just know from 100 years of prohibition that it is a failed policy strategy. But yes I work for a kratom extraction company that makes mitragynine extract. We donât make 7OH because we run our process 100% green chemistry and donât want to risk having toxic solvents in our building.
1 Like
maybe itâs because of the people who already died and the size of the pool of opioid addicts using street drugs has gotten smaller as a result
lol, back your claims and stop pretending people who ask questions arenât the ones thinking
1 Like
So then why pretend you have any idea what youâre talking about when it comes to the withdrawal affects? Comparing opioid withdrawal to caffeine makes you seem like a completely out of touch Chad who will say whatever for a sale.
Cause Iâve talked to people who have gone through the withdrawal from it.
Either way, lets say the withdrawal is 10x what you say it is. Not a reason to ban it.
So then how come it went up consistently for 20 years or so?
I did back my claims up though, at least in terms of overall overdose deaths dropping. But that was a legitimate question. A lot of times people donât trust a random user of a forum crunching numbers, so I wasnât going to do it myself if you were just going to reject the finding and focus on finding the original article Iâm thinking of. The new firefox update makes it retarded looking up my browser history.
pharmaceutical opioid wave, heroin wave, and the fentanyl wave which started killing people en masse
1 Like
Then you have talked to liars. There are few things on this planet that fuck a person up like opioid withdrawal. And given that 7OH is significantly more potent than morphine itâs only saving grace is that is not a full agonist. You seem incredibly disingenuous.
And to be clear, Iâm not in favor of government banning anything.
Correct.
So youâre saying its more likely that it just killed off all the people it was going to kill and people arenât using opiates anymore. And it has nothing to do with the billion doses of 7OH that have been sold in the 2 years since the drop in overdose deaths started?
Ok let me rephrase that, theyâre not saying that caffeine is worse than 7OH, Iâm saying that caffeine lasting 2-4 weeks, with the first week basically leading you bedridden (personal experience) is worse than the 2-4 days of being sick that 7OH causes (from what Iâve heard from people Iâve talked to). Kratom alkaloids could be full agonists, theyâd still be safer than morphine. Kratom alkaloids donât recruit beta-arrestin, which is what leads to the deadly respiratory depression you get from morphine, heroin, fentanyl, pharma opiates, etc. I donât know how any of that is disingenuous. I think you projected onto my post since I was commenting on 7OH not being harmful enough for a ban that I was a 7OH user. And since Iâm not you think Iâm disingenuous. Whatever. My point moreso was that caffeine withdrawal ACTUALLY fucks you up. I wonât even go into alcohol withdrawal, that can kill you.
But if youâre not against government banning 7OH idk why youâre even arguing with me.
Fuck you. Weasel.
ad hominem
ok temu heroin dealer.
2 Likes
I think awareness of fake percocet that are actually filled with fentanyl has peaked in the last 2 years, correlation isnât causation. Google trends show that search queries for âfentanyl pillâ peaked in Sept. 2022
1 Like