well you should go to Julabo’s website and check their case studies and compare that with ours on the same type of reactors. Lauda does not show case studies neither does Mydax, for whatever reason
1 Like
https://www.julabo.com/sites/default/files/downloads/casestudies/JULABO-Casestudy_2015-03-01.pdf
3 h 45 min …cooling
http://www.huber-usa.com/download/casestudies/CS_84.pdf
2h cooling
http://www.huber-usa.com/download/casestudies/CS_1242.pdf
1,5 h…20 to - 60 C
https://www.julabo.com/sites/default/files/downloads/casestudies/JULABO-Casestudy_2015-03-10.pdf
2h :50 min
20 to - 60 C
We have a single chiller to do that So Stupendous and we have even bigger ones
20 to -60 in 60 min
Mydax doesn’t show full performance curves on their literature, but they do show a bit of cooling time / performance info that’s specific to ethanol chilling:
If you can show me a Huber unit case study that can cool 250 gallons of ethanol from +25 to -70 in 80 minutes or less, and does it at a price even remotely comparable to the CryoDax 90 units, I’d be happy to consider it. The CryoDax 90 has 90 kW @ -20 for reference.
I don’t have a horse in this race other than that I am trying to get the best value for our investor’s dollars. Sometimes it makes sense to pay for the premium products, but sometimes it doesn’t.
6 Likes
The Huber in that case study claims 20kW to -40, the Julabo claims 9.5kW to -20. So the Julabo has a bit less than 1/2 the power.
The Huber gets to -75 after 2 hours.
The Julabo gets to -80 after 3.75 hours. With less than half the power. If your increased efficiency claim was correct, the julabo would have taken more than 4 hours.
The Huber claims 1.5 kW to -20, the Julabo claims 1.1 kW to -20. So ~73% of the power.
The setpoint on the Huber was -90, the setpoint on the Julabo was -60, and was set to not overshoot the target. If you follow the response curve of the Julabo, if it was set to -80 it is likely it would have reached -60 some time around 2.25 hours if it didn’t back off so as to not overshoot.
Just for fun, what’s 73% of 2.25 hours? 1.6 hours. Pretty damn close to 1.5 hours.
If you’re going to start making claims, do it with real and applicable data. I think someone you know mentioned above that one should always make apples to apples comparisons.
These disingenuous claims aren’t helping your case.
7 Likes
You need to look at nominal powers in the first place, The HUBER 930w has a max of 20 kw of nominal cooling powerat a wide range of temperature.
https://www.huber-online.com/download/pdf_datasheets/englisch/1017.0035.01.PDF
If you look at the data sheet of Julabo they have 30 KW of nominal cooling power to start with.
However they drop quite sharply very quickly , you need to ask them why this is the case not us.
So to your point : our System has 30 % less nominal cooling power , 20 % smaller built and way more efficient.
As for the second case study its not so much the set point we could have done set point -60 and be much faster. Ask Julabo why they did not set -90 and go all the way down to the lowest point.
Hey by the way , if you own a Julabo and that’s your favorite and you are happy , that’s fine with me. I am not trying to win every ones heart. If you are interested to to talk to us in person, we are going to be in Vegas in November at MJ biz and you can take a look at our systems.
Sorry forgot to copy the data sheet
930 W has nominal 20 KW of cooling power max
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
- Upton Sinclair
I actually don’t currently own or care about Julabo, or Huber, or Mydax, or any other chiller company. I’m an engineer - I care about meeting the requirements of my processes with a healthy safety margin in the most cost-effective manner possible.
The data sheets speak for themselves for the most part. Thermodynamics doesn’t change based on opinion and marketing spin.
I invite any chiller manufacturer here to send me data sheets and pricing on any unit that they make that can cool 250 gallons of ethanol from +25 to -70 in 80 minutes or less. If you’ve got the best price/performance/features ratio we’ll likely order two to start.
6 Likes
I suggest you visit MJ Biz in Las Vegas, talk to each one the chiller guys on the show floor. Take a look at the products, the warranty , the service etc. Then you find out the true value.
Any Chiller manufacturer can send you some data sheets and a price tag.
If this is your decision for a purchase, go with Mydax…you get a lot of KW’s for your dollars. But that’s most likely all you get.
I suggest you visit MJ Biz in Las Vegas, talk to each one the chiller guys on the show floor. Take a look at the products, the warranty , the service etc. Then you find out the true value.
Any Chiller manufacturer can send you some data sheets and a price tag.
If this is your decision for a purchase, go with Mydax…you get a lot of KW’s for your dollars. But that’s most likely all you get.
And her is something really simple to understand , clear settings , clear goals , and clear data sheets
Huber - 90 C / 4,7 KW unit on 100 Liter glass reactor down to minus 60 C in 140 min.
http://www.huber-usa.com/download/casestudies/CS_1107.pdf
Julabo - 90 C / 11 Kw unit on 100 Liter glass reactor down to minus 50 C in 150 min
https://www.julabo.com/sites/default/files/downloads/casestudies/JULABO-Casestudy-PrestoW91tt_2013-09_10.pdf
@huber_king_of_temp A good takeaway from this thread should be that while current Huber (as well as other RTC) systems are good at what they do, for this industry’s needs they may not be optimal. In order to better fit our needs, maybe Huber would consider engineering systems that would be the best at cooling large volumes of ethanol not with precision, but with speed and efficiency. And leave the heating out of it altogether. Also a system that could pump through cold ethanol from a room temp tank on demand would be pretty fucking rad too 
4 Likes
You’re right, on that one, your system does appear to perform marginally better. Then of course it becomes a cost/features question.
But there’s no doubt that the Huber systems are great for some things, just not every possible use case.
Thanks , that is valuable information.
Please come to see us in Vegas, I am interesting to learn more about what kind of temp ranges and ramp rates your looking at
1 Like
no doubt you are absolutely right on that one as well
Hope to see you in Vegas
Will do!
2 Likes
Anybody interested to receive a free guest pass for MJ BIZ in Las Vegas
Nov 16 - 18
I give away 5 free tickets…
First come first serve
Need name and e mail
( you can e mail me georg.kiefer@huber-usa.com )
4 Likes
We actually visited Mydax before we bought our chillers and took a tour of the factory, it was impressive.
Can’t disclose to many specifics about our process but I can tell you we actually beat the performance they quoted us…
3 Likes
They are also very competitive price-wise with any of the higher quality Chinese units that are actually worth buying, at least based on the quotes I’ve received from them and others.