Vaping THCO causes Poisonous Ketene gas formation - Vape crisis 2.0

Does this mean dabbing in general is bad or only thc-o

Read the article. It’s not that complicated. Ketene is produced from acetyl noids that are heated beyond 250C albeit in very low amounts.

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This sure sounds like if the temp is above 250c then the reaction DOES occur. But I dono, this is just a direct quote from the “#1 cannabis chemist in the world.”

Where do they hold the cannabis chemist world cup?

even if there are low levels of ketenes being formed but not enough to be “toxic” is a pretty shitty way to go about continuing business selling these products because we all know the consumers buying these are going to continually dab and or puff on their carts day in and day out and i can pretty much assure that toxic levels will be reached.

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My only question would be whether the ketene gas actually makes it to the alveoli or if it is converted to acetic acid before it gets there. Especially if it goes through a water pipe first. I wonder how much acetic acid is inhaled when cleaning with vinegar?

Google yields the NIOSH limit for acetic acid at 10ppm averaged over a work day.

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There is also the question of low level exposure over time. I am not sure if there is any data on such

Now I’m gonna go look

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Your not supposed to smoke acetates, they are for edibles and topical only.

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I too am interested in extended low level exposure. I think this kind of discussion and research will get us much further in risk assesment/harm reduction than “Vape gate 2.0 ban it all” will ever get us. I am honestly surprised that the researchers did not simply hook their inhalation device up to a bong before sampling as I have a gut feeling that if the ketene gas “instantly” reacts with water to form acetic acid, that acetic acid should be immediately soluble in water.

Know thy enemy:

" most ketenes are unstable. When used as reagents in a chemical procedure, they are typically generated when needed, and consumed as soon as (or while) they are produced"

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Unfortunately nobody informed the disposable/cart manufacturers or end users of this

Or they didn’t care

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I’ve met a few people from here and I don’t know shit about shit but @CO_Chromatography seems like a more legit group than 90% of what’s out there I trust these guys with cbn that I eat personally I’d trust their judgment on this one too

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He is the most cited cannabis chemist in the last 10 years, does that qualify?

There indeed a reaction I never debated that, but there are many reactions that occur when scrambling any molecule at 370-500C…

The real quesiton is it at toxic levels the many side reactions that are going on?

Lets also no forgetting smoking anything is harmful specially dabbing…

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And what judgement would that be? It doesn’t appear that they sponsored the research nor conducted it. I think the research conducted was mighty fine, but I believe it is incomplete and there is more work to do.

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Go study the affects on your lungs for dabbing extreme tempterature for 5, 10, 20,30 years…

You will probably be horrified (I would wager). Also might as well go look into every molecule at that temperature to see what other side reactions are formed.

Edit oh wait simple google search: high temperatures put dabbers at risk for inhaling methacrolein (a very noxious chemical) when dabbing at temps above 600°F, and large amounts of benzene (a potent carcinogen) when dabbed above 950° (Cannabis extracts).

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Hot and hurty as they say

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I talked about this last week about how it ducked my lungs

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Myrcene degrades to benzene pretty readily iirc. Terps will probably be problems long term

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does it even need to be inhaled through a water pipe? would the moisture present in ones body/airways/lungs not already be sufficient to convert such a small ppm?

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I’ll play around with all this stuff (super fun eating it lol) but I’m not going to be providing THC conversions or vapes for anyone anytime soon.

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#willdie4terpz

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This is why a healthy discussion of vapor points should be passed down, and informationals made.

Preach against nectar collectors, way too often is it easy to get it too hot, and get off the torch, unless you check banger temp.

These are all real things, long term effects and potential damages are best mitigated by good consumption habits.

You f!@%ers don’t boil your soda and gulp the sludge do ya?

Same, same, but different same.

People make fun of me for my baby, and soft hits, they should just be happy they don’t have to understand it the way I did. I know to go just a hair above boiling point. I don’t dab hotter than 450, and regardless, doing nothing is certainly healthier. Goal is always harm reduction, period, even if it’s a stupid decision.

I’ve started to get borderline aggressive about it. :rofl: “Dipshit, terps are boiling off, in the room we are in, it’s why you smell it, so imagine what happens when you take a glowing piece of glass to it, at just under 1000°”

Quoted. :rofl:

I swear, how anyone can deny we are primates is beyond me, with these animals out here.

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I also want to postulate that people are combusting it on hemp flower too…

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