What’s the rest of the oil??
I’m not sure why people are selling oil with questionable unknowns.
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@CustomSynthetics please dont hijack my thread. This is the classifieds category.
You are welcome to offer consulting services in the appropriate category.
TAC of 81.2%
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Is this converted from isolate, distillate or mother liquor?
If it’s converted from isolate then this is literally what I was talking about in your other thread regarding safety of products being sold as “distillate”.
You’re asking for no “debate in your thread” yet you’re selling something that is literally 1/5th unknown material. It’s not plant matter, it’s side reactions.
If you don’t want people to ask you what’s in your product you should sell product that is safe. This is just Vitamin E 2.0 waiting to happen and it will hurt this industry AGAIN.
If you don’t want people questioning the unknowns in your product you should just eliminate the unknowns and sell pure products.
Just because a catalyst is food grade does not mean that the products produced by it are now also food grade.
I guess I’m just confused @Future why you’re letting ambassadors for Future4200 sell products that contain 20% unknown material which NO ONE KNOWS if they are safe for human consumption.
We can argue all day and night if the side products in this material are dangerous or not, but guess what we’d just be spinning our wheels because they are UNKOWN. If you start with 99% cannabinoid and end with 80% then there is a lot of room for dangerous side reactions to fill up that missing %.
Selling shit like this is dangerous, that is unless you and your team have a known identity for every molecule in that missing 20%… and if those molecules are also safe for consumption. Sorry to shit all over your post but I refuse to sit around while people sell things that can hurt people.
Helpful rule of thumb for anyone looking to buy converted material from someone, if it’s not 99% then ask them what the unknowns are. If they can’t tell you, don’t buy it because it could hurt someone.
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bruh no one knows. Even when u test cbd crude ur gonna get back some unknown percentage.
However, i do agree, dont sling shit when u have a big percentage of unknown.
With that being said as far as citric acid conversions go, they are relatively benign
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@Thetetraguy yeah but unknowns in an extracted concentrate are a little different than converted stuff.
Unknowns in extracts are generally plant matter (lipids,terps, flavonoids etc.) but unknowns in converted material are way different.
Basically creating impure pharmaceuticals and trying to sell them as safe because of how they were made at this point.
Citric acid is definitely benign as far as chemical conversions go, but that doesn’t mean that the unknowns are necessarily safe for consumption, so why risk it?
Also even if this 80% TAC converted material was safe because it was converted using citric acid, that just opens the flood gates for someone who’s making this stuff a different way to sell something that’s unsafe.
I can’t believe that people are trying to sell this shit to people who don’t know any better. Very disappointing from what this website used to be.
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i dont think anyone here is claimimg pharmeceutical level substances. I actually havent seen any converted COAs near pharmaceutical level (99%+ purity)
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And that’s the issue is that what people are doing is the SAME THING that pharmaceutical companies are doing (converting one molecule into a different molecule using chemical reactions) but they act like it’s somehow different because they started with cannabinoids.
Synthetic chemistry is synthetic chemistry doesn’t matter what your starting or ending materials are. If you’re doing synthetic chemistry with the intention of letting humans ingest that product, it should be held to a very high standard. This standard is severely lacking in the cannabis industry at the moment.
I’m claiming that people are performing pharmaceutical grade reactions, but not producing a pharmaceutical grade final product.
There seems to be an alarming disconnect from what cannabinoid conversion really is in this industry. Just because it grows naturally out of the ground does not mean that a synthetically converted cannabinoid from that plant is natural. It has likely interacted with dozens of different reagents and solvents in order to get it to the state it is now in.
The majority of minor cannabinoids will likely end up being produced primarily by the pharmaceutical industry because people in the cannabis industry think that selling impure products is ok because it’s cannabis Derived.
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So if all I can purchase as a company is a 98% converted product to formulate with that has 2% unknowns I am just poisoning people?
So all products on the market with any converted cannabinoids are poison?
Wondering where to draw the line here, serious question.
Kinda saw this coming right when this thread went up. Great timing.
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I agree a line needs to be drawn, and frankly I’m not the one who has the expertise to draw it.
I think the FDA is going to have to be the one to make the final call. Until then I would say 98% is likely ok (but again I can’t say for sure).
Maybe 95% is doable, again I’m not the authority on this at all… personally I’m sticking with >98% pure products.
I can say that 80% would be well outside of my acceptable range. If I was giving someone something that could have 20% harmful unknowns I would go so far as to say I could very well be unknowingly poisoning someone.
That really is a good question though, really made me think.
At what point do you draw the line @shattertramp
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It would be really great to know exactly what the “unknowns” are before I could say exactly how much is acceptable.
What I make as I am sure is the case with many others on here, is consumed by my friends and family. It depends on exactly what it is.
Also regardless of my ethics, what’s to say another company doesn’t decide to make a 500mg tincture with a 50% conversion because they can get it for the low. I know about 20 that would in a heartbeat.
Take a look at McDonald’s eggs, they contain glycerin, dimethylpolysiloxane, and calcium silicate (the stuff I used to insulate my attic)
How many consumers do you think know that there is anything other than eggs in that egg flavored sponge they stick between two “muffins”
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That’s the problem with unknowns lol it’s hard to say how much is ok… it’s a really hard question!
That’s the problem with this industry 
everyone is so focused on making a quick buck they don’t care about consumer safety.
I see where you’re coming from with the McDonald’s egg argument (I definitely didn’t know that!) but at the same time I would like to imagine that the cannabis industry try to avoid being like McDonald’s lol. I suppose people know that it’s unhealthy for them and they eat it anyways… I just don’t think the average consumer smoking a D8 vape really understands that what they’re consuming could also be really unhealthy for them. That’s what makes it not fair. It would be fine if it said on the package (Contains 20% Unknown material) and people who were smoking it knew they were buying potentially dangerous stuff… but I imagine that stuff wouldn’t sell very good 
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If everyone could just have a little respect for the OP what if his starting material was 80% TAC distillate he never answered . I am all for product safety but we have intentionally and accidentally made delta 8 for a while i think citric acid is the best catalyst/ safest . There are other threads to talk about this in . Anyone buying delta 8 should know the risks and make their own informed decision . This is where we are at with this folks that’s also what we do in science experimental testing and animal testing ect . Science has nothing to do with morals when you factor in these variables and i don’t necessarily condone these practices . With all this being said my personal opinion is that this product is 99% most likely fine and that until we do further testing no one will know and anyone consuming any delta 8 will have to make their own decision about consuming a semi-synthetic cannabinoid . If this was cbn and sulphur or iodine i would feel different . But as said before we have been making delta 8 for a long time even on accident with PH change and isomerizarion for years i think there has been enough experimenting to say its pretty safe . Is citric acid really even a catalyst or is it just PH change and isomerization ?
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I posted this a while ago
99.5% d8
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drops mic
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I have 0 respect for people slinging impure shit. You’re asking me to respect this post that could very well get someone harmed? No way.
If he st o consume long-term? NO ONE KNOWS! For you to say it’s most likely safe and consumers should take responsibility for using potential unsafe products and the blame shouldn’t fall on the producers is disgusting.
What if you’re wrong and that 1% is right and now someone is dead because you’re thinking it’s whatever?
Ah they should have known better? Is that what you would say to their family when someone died using one of YOUR products?
Shit like this is going to put people out of business and kill people… but people don’t care because they can turn their worthless mother liquor into something impure that they may be able to make a quick buck on.
Shit like this speaks volumes about who actually cares about consumer safety and who is in this to make a quick buck and doesn’t care who the hurt.
@Future I’m still waiting on your response as to why ambassadors for Future4200 are slinging potentially dangerous shit on here?
Is it the official stance of this forum now that selling dangerous impure shit is to be embraced? If that’s the case then I’m out of here.
@sidco @iLLnyeTheShatterGuy are the other moderators or ambassadors going to hold anyone accountable for this? Or is this forum just about making quick cash and not giving a shit about the consumer nowadays?
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@CO_Chromatography i am all for making medicine and safety . I personally grow and make medicine. In 2019 i made over 1000gs of medicine( full spec extract) donated for free because i try to help the less fortunate . I grow with only the finest highest input organic quality materials . Its like smoking cigs man people chose to do it knowing its bad personal consumer choice . These same people could all grow their own tobacco or not consume in general but they chose not to they prefer chemical laced poison. As stated above citric acid isn’t even a catalyst think of all the black market producers doing zero analytics on pesticide laced , mycotoxins , catalysts from fire zones . I’m very sure someone will do mass spec on some delta 8 soon and we can answer some of these questions . Until then talk about it in another thread and quit flaming this one . I would give delta 8 to any sick person in my family . As i clearly stated if this was CBN with nasty catalyst i would agree 100% . All I’m saying is millions of people have been smoking delta 8 for years and that’s enough for me to say its probably fairly safe without studies and real hardcore analytics done
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I think you might have elevated this topic prematurely.
This an open source forum:
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No revenue is generated from this forum. Merely a place to express, learn and generate new methodology.
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Just as you have the ability to question ones methods, they also have the ability to promote and discus theirs. I can’t speak to @Mosaic_Co-Labs starting material, methodology or finished goods state. That’s his prerogative. You can hash that out if desired.
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If concluding pharmaceutical grade finished goods and methods are “your” goal… then do so and prove it’s efficacy. This will also entail full transparency to your methodology. Which so many innovators are reluctant to do. That will speak much larger volumes than degrading somebody else’s practices. Are you willing to provide your methodology on your products/conversions? When we asked TrueTerps to provide said documentation, he wouldn’t and we all know how that ended. You can always request a sample and conduct an in-house analysis of said products if this is your goal with @Mosaic_Co-Labs products.
We do promote safety and discussions like this thread open the dialogue for proper practices. We should be more focused on what was discussed above… working together to conclude what the unknowns are, helping the industry progress. Not bash anyone who might not have the resources or knowledge in a certain area as somebody else.
The goal here should really be (in a separate thread)… a solution. Hence working together to create “the line of safe methodology”. If you truly care about the industry and have insight to better methodology than I think the real play here is to share this data. Or else it kinda looks like the quick buck desired on this OP is yours. Again, you know this is an open source forum and if your point of this topic is the betterment of the industry. Then a solution would be generous, not slander.
#leveluptogether
Gang gang,
iLL Nye
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HCL gas dry gives this
So does AC 4 hour reflux
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No the official stands is we are evolving to more mature cannabinoid masters and some of us and soon many more are getting NMR equipment
the database is still very empty but that won t take long
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