Sorry I was having some trouble understanding. I like the idea but hie are you going to increase the temp to 150 Celsius without decarbing?
Look back at the data provided by cloud as the pressure increased so did the boiling temp. If the pressure increases the BP of thc then decarboxylation may not occur until higher temps are reached also
I should point out I generally use the metric system but the temps in my last post were Fahrenheit. I always assumed when people said they keep their jars at 90-110 I assumed they were talking Fahrenheit and not Celsius.
Decarboxylation has nothing to do with boiling point my friend. Decarboxylation has to do with sufficient kinetic energy being supplied to undergo a reaction. Increasing pressure just changes the point of equilibrium for vapor pressure above the solution.
so are you saying that decarboxylation happens at the same energy level regardless of the atmosphere around it? So if you were at -29hg or 1200psi, decarboxylation would occur at the same point?
Would it be possible to in theory introduce so much vaccuum that you would reach the BP of the solution before decarboxylation would even occur?
Forgive my noobness on the topic, I’m trying to learn all I can about this stuff and have no formal training in anything related.
nice thanks for educating me guys, I was totally thinking down the wrong path. How does this work, does anyone have some sources I could read to get more info on the mechanics behind this?
Thank you I wasn’t sure if decarboxylation would be affected by changing the pressure. Would there be a way to inhibit the reaction or retard the decarboxylation process while increasing heat then once satisfied remove what ever prevents the reaction from occurring my next question then.
I don’t know of anything you could do to the solution that would decrease the rate of decarboxylation at a given temperature. Let me do some homework and if I find anything I’ll get back to you on that. @cyclopath @Future @Photon_noir @Beaker got anything on this?
As a separate matter, after putting my already thick extract in a dry ice bath for 20 minutes I pulled it out and got this funky looking thing. I burped it once it rose to >0°C then put it back on dry ice for 20 minutes. I repeated this four or five times then I started to get this super thick layer on the bottom that wasn’t going away between burps. After putting it in a dry ice bath for 10-15 more minutes I then poured off everything that wasn’t stuck to the bottom into a diamond Miner. The decanted fluid had very low viscosity but was thick with extract based on the coffee filter it was poured through. The remaining thick extract left in the bottom of the jar was capped and will be in a dry ice bath for 5-6 hours. The diamond Miner with the decanted fluid was pressurized with nitrogen to 60 psi and will be in a dry ice bath for the same length of time. What should I do with these once I take them out of the bath? Just set them in a place and leave them to do their thing?
@Krative, that is lipids, waxes, and THCa precipitating (crashing) from the solution. It takes some finesse, but you can get the THCa to separate from the lipids and wax, to make very pure clusters of tiny THCa crystals this way.
@Homegrown34 @clouds, our friend @cyclopath is correct. “Decarboxylation”, specifically with cannabinoid acids, is a “pseudo first order reaction” (use the terms in quotes to search for info). Pressure and concentration of products do not affect its rate. Only changing temperature changes the rate.
Decarboxylation can be catalyzed to occur faster at lower temperatures (activation energy remains the same, but is partially provided by the catalyst in addition to heat) using alkali metal oxides or alkaline earth metal oxides, such as lithium oxide or magnesium oxide, respectively.
Finally, there are ways to lower the total energy of the system, sort of like anti-catalysis, such that it would require more heat (higher temperature) to decarboxylate at a given rate than it normally would. However, this generally involves changing the nature of the molecule, itself, by reacting it with something else to form a new molecular species prior to decarboxylation. For example, CBD decarbs slower than THC at a given temperature… these molecules are isomers of one another, but the potential energy of their carboxylic acid groups are different, so one takes more heat to pop off than the other.
Got it. I though I could bypass the dewaxing stage. I was wrong. Now I know for the next one.
Well, if you dewax inline, you have to be very particular about how you do it, because dewaxing can also precipitate THCa… and even if you do it right, there will still be some crud precipitated along with the THCa in post processing. Ultimately, dewaxing alone is not the answer… but well-controlled cold precipitation and separation of THCa can work.
Ur best bet is to blast cryo cold solvent, over cryo material! Almost open blast in sense bc straight through, no soak… Leave all the bad behind frozen in the column! That’s how ton of us do it!
No 2nd stage anything… No 2nd solvent winterization
Do you mean just very slow percipitation?
@StoneD is partially correct about this, @krative . Using very cold solvent (-40 to -80°C), brief contact time (but complete herb coverage; no solvent channeling or dry spots allowed), and very dry cannabis (dry herb has very low heat capacity, so it does not need to be chilled prior to cold solvent introduction… and chilling the herb actually has a few deleterious effects associated with it) leads to greater selectivity in cannabis resin extraction. If you use 190 proof ethanol at the right temperature, it will be selective for the resin without pulling and non-polar fat or wax, or polar chlorophyll. If you use hydrocarbons at sufficiently low temperature, you will pull less fat and wax, but hydrocarbons will always pull at least some extraneous non-polar material… so precipitation in the original hydrocarbon using same or lower cold temperature as the extraction will still include some grunk you don’t want. In other words, hydrocarbon extracts can always be Winterized afterward with cold ethanol to remove more undesirable material.
Again, you may be able to learn specific methodologies for these processes by sifting through the forum, other research, trial and error, and your own experiments, but if you want extra quick and easy “tek”, you can always hire one of us to teach you the exact recipes and provide ongoing tek support, novel methods, tips and tricks, troubleshooting, and all the gravy you can eat… but buy us a meal or two in solidarity, you know? Good hunting, good luck, or join the Good Life Gang!
So freeze dry, keep your ethanol below -60°C, less than 10 minutes contact time with stirring. We are planning 200 proof ethanol. I am just worried that 10 minutes may bee too long. @Photon_noir how’s all that look?
I actually said NOT to bother freezing your dry plant matter… and I especially did not say to freeze dry (lyophilize) it. I may have said super dry, meaning drying in a sealed area with fan circulated air and a dehumidifier set as low as possible… make sure to drain the collection basin regularly, or just plumb it outside the room to a drain. I also said below -70°C. You can use as much contact time as you want, as long as the temperature of the ethanol in contact with the dried herb remains -67°C or lower. I also said 190 proof potable ethanol and I have repeatedly stated what and why all over the interwebs. So since you asked how it looks, well… I have to say it looks like you haven’t been paying close attention to things that were written specifically for you in answer to your questions, nor have you read trusted sources here or elsewhere with sufficient focus or memory to retain the information and begin practicing with it. No disrespect, but no.
Thank you, I will be sure to reread more thoroughly.
So I apologize for wasting your time if I am way off again. I understand that 190 proof is best for winterization, so it makes sense that that would also be optimal for extracting sans lipids.
Dehydrate bud as much as possible
Soak with 190 proof ethanol kept below -67℃
Proceed to scrubbing, degumming, and winderization
No. You don’t need to Winterize if you do it right.