HAL Booth Configuration Control Change

CannaBusiness
, ,
1

Hey Gents,

I know HAL is OOB but I do believe they have quite a few systems out in the wild so someone will likely know how to do this or who I should be asking-

My AHJ wants my booth lights and Corken to turn OFF when the booth alarm triggers from a high enough LEL.

Is this something a qualified electrician can make happen with the controllers inside? Like if the alarm horn triggers it sends some signal to my pump and booth lights to turn off?

OR

Is this something within the HAL interface that I can make happen? I have the admin code and password, I just don’t want to change the wrong thing and be fucked.

Thanks team.

2

Sounds like you’d have to adjust the logic and wiring to accomplish this, not necessarily the easiest task, but doable with the right knowledge.

Would love that admin code and password, I’m at a place that would really like to flash the PLC onto a backup unit, but we don’t have the login info.

1 Like
3

It’s been 4+ years since I’ve done a HAL install. But there were relays in the control panel you can run accessory equipment like the pump too that will kill its power. I would push back on the lights turning off though. That’s sounds like a liability.

4 Likes
4

I would recommend Dimitri at Hi Meadow Consulting. He can help with everything booths. His number is +1 (303) 915-1054.

3 Likes
5

any decent electrician should be able to take the triggered relay from the alarm sensor panel and disable any electrical components you need.

I also would not have your lights turn off and would fight that. a properly rated light is designed to be in a room full of vapors, the only reason your power to lights should be shut off is if they are not rated to be in the room, which i doubt the AHJ would allow anyways.

6 Likes
6

Ok great. I do have my electrician, who is fairly savvy with booth relays to come figure it out for me.

I agree entirely. The booth lights turning off makes no sense to me, they’re C1D1 rated lights, and he asked me to install an exit light with a power back up INSIDE the booth that doesn’t turn off. That has me pretty confused.

1 Like
7

Can you install an exit sign on the door’s window of the booth? save on a c1d1 fixture and also keep electronics out of the booth, that may make the ahj happy since he seems to be weird about rated fixtures in the booth. lol

2 Likes
8

Dimitri for sure. Helped us a ton when our HAL booth went down.

3 Likes
9

Agreeing with the opinion the lights shouldn’t need to turn off. Anything that generates explosive vapors should be turned off (so I agree that Corken should go down)

1 Like
10

Questions:

Is there a qualified PE at your AHJ that will recertify your both after this modification?

Is it safe to have the lights completely out in a dark booth during an emergency?

Have they presented a code to you requiring this change?

Are you on a mature market where they really know what they’re doing?

I’ve never heard of a municipality (AUTHORITY HAVING JURISDICTION) suggest changes to certified booths. Tell me more.

11

They power trip all the time and want whatever they think is right.

3 Likes
12

Local zoning wonks requesting changes to safety equipment is horrifying.

4 Likes
13

Hit up Hi-Meadow Consulting if your electrician can’t figure it out.

Sounds to me like a simple interlock. Most booths have this feature already.

1 Like
14

Achieving your AHJ’s request doesn’t seem difficult.

However, it seems like they have zero clue…

The lights are rated. So is the pump.

Sure I don’t want the pump continuing to pressurize a leaking vessel, but if I’ve noticed a leak and am using the pump to depressurize said leaking vessel, you’ve just sabotaged my ability to get things under control.

Turning the lights out?

Fuck you moron!!

They are not a source of ignition, and at a minimum I need them to make sure everyone is out of the damn booth. You wanna drive everybody out? Use a siren. Don’t turn the duckling lights off on me.

I get that presenting it as such to the AHJ will make things worse, not better, but JHC on a raft…what do they have between their ears?!?

Edit: “have you tried the big red ‘work properly’ button?”, has been a running joke in my whirled for 35+ years…this is this first time I’ve considered that installing such a button might be useful…do what they want. Install a “now function correctly” switch that returns things to their original settings.

8 Likes
15

Couldn’t agree more.

I did research it with the inspector. I guess it’s a new requirement this year for the LPG inspectors that booths have an interlock at 20% LEL that cuts all outlets, lights, and pumps inside the booth and alerts the fire department.

Which sucks.

16

Where is it required? IFC or NFPA 58?

17

So your booth is supposed to “Alert” the fire department if the sniffer detects 20% LEL ?

That “Alert” would be constantly going off every time a rookie operator evacuated his gassy socks or if they burped a tank towards the sniffer.

imagine how insane this would make the people monitoring the “Alerts”, having false alarms constantly coming in from several labs, the staff would be numb by the time a real alarm went off.

Sometimes it helps just to repeat these scenarios back to them and ask them to explain the logic behind it. In my experiences AHJ’s are supposed to interpret the code as it applies to their local bylaws so changing their minds with logic is completely possible. Just hope the inspector doesn’t request you hire a code consultant, those can cost time and money years beyond commissioning.

4 Likes
18

That’s gotta be about the dumbest damn thing I’ve heard today.

Go ahead, hook it up that way and see how much the fire department likes it…

What state is this?

3 Likes
19

Some AHJs may require you setup a relay to send a “supervisory” alarm to the fire monitoring system when certain conditions exist (xy% LEL). This alarm would not call the fire department, instead your internal representative would get the call.

2 Likes
20

I visited a lab in Colorado with this requirement. This 100% leads to tampering with equipment so the fire department is not called erroneously. This jurisdiction in CO also charged the business for the call (whether false alarm or actual) which further encouraged tampering to avoid expensive false alarms. Terrible policy.

1 Like