I know acidity disassociate chlorophyll…what pH is used in brine wash to push orange(anthocyanins) to the aqueous?
Could make some media suggestions based on this info.
I think 3? Maybe 3.5.
So T41 and then Alumina, MSPR, or Silica60
I was going to bring up t41 also with silca
A hexane wash with methanol 1:1
Then adding 3% volume of water taking the methanol layer and distill that took all the red but i mean all
I have Some isseus with the result i respect to % isomerization but that was probably a diffrent origin
Damn, that is interesting. I might have to give that a try aswell. Thanks for that info.
Was trying to understand a bit more about how these different medias work and came across this information.
For Magnesium Silicate I found a paper on ResearchGate saying it is 95% insoluble in ethanol(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/223981891_Magnesium_Silicate), but how much will end up in solution when we’re talking about 5%?
For Silica Gel I found this as a comparison…
“The Chemistry of Silica,” R. K. Iler, Wiley-Interscience, New York: 1979, pg 61-62. (This is the “silica bible” for classical silica information.)
Other researchers found that “silica gels dehydrated under optimum conditions and suspended in anhydrous alcohols” generated the following numbers:
methanol 1890 ppm
ethanol 164 ppm
1-propanol 8 ppm
Activated alumina seems completely insoluble in ethanol, because it seems like it’s more like using a zeolite like a molecular sieve. Can anyone explain how that translates to safety for use? Can we just catch that bit that ends up in solution in another layer of media like celite or something?
So, also trying to understand how these materials are working to remove color. They all appear to be nothing more than dessicants that can also filter larger particles. Is their capability in color removal tied to the solubility of those colored molecules in the water content and so when the dessicating is occurring the colored molecules are being pulled with the water into/onto the dessicant layer? Or is dessicating only making it easier to remove color in later media layers because there is now a lack of water to keep those water soluble compounds in solution and the color removal we are seeing is incidental due to it’s physical filtration properties?
Decided to research bentonite and activated carbon while I was in the media research mood.
Bentonite, primarily composed of montmorillonite, seems to be described as removing heavy metals, colored molecules, and proteins that can produce cloudiness. Oddly coincidental maybe is that montmorillonite is composed of Silica and alumina bonded layers.
Activated carbon is an especially wide ranging material. Apparently there’s a lot of different applications it serves based purely off its pore sizes in much the way molecular sieves work. I was reading things from heavy metal removal, water, colors, tannins. It seemed very versatile comparatively.
Yeah I was never sure why people were bringing up alumina, but I figured maybe they knew something I didn’t. I’ve only used it as a stationary phase in my column.
If it’s just a water issue you’d think silica/zeolite with a celite bed would be optimal… but I don’t know/think it’s necessarily a water solubility issue? You’d assume anyone using anhydrous ethanol would be getting the best results; but to my knowledge 95.8% does just as well as 99%? Since there’s water in the source material as well it’ll be sucking up water solubles regardless. Not sure what “water soluble” items people are trying to avoid either.
Wood based charcoal has been probably the most effective item in my toolkit so far. Take a green/brown extract to a red to orange pending on how much I use.
Was also curious about how ethanol temperature affects the process, I know etoh becomes “less” polar/freezes up the polar end under super low temps. I’d be curious if the bentonite would be more useful at low temps with longer exposure (obviously more chemical reactions occur at higher temps) when the ethanol has more non-polar properties a-la butane remediation Tek. Maybe do a shit-ton of bentonite in a cold solution?
I know one of the vendors here was working on some etoh-cbleach but haven’t heard news about that for a while.
Adsorption is defined as the phenomenon in which there is an accumulation of one substance on the surface of another substance. The action by which this happens is both physical and chemical but this highly dependent upon the media used and the compound to be adsorbed.
Here’s a good short read on the subject
Just checked the bottom graph. I think maybe basic alumina might actually do something? Basic dye filtration?
Activated alumina does do something, @Dred_pirate what were your results with activated alumina as the top layer?
It caught some color didn’t it?
As in acid activated?
Yes most likely, but after the media is made porous its ph can be neutralized without affecting its ability to adsorb.
I think Carbon Chem stocks neutral activated alumina.
Our alumina is activated but has a neutral pH. I like the grain size as a stationary phase at the top and/or bottom of a stack.
Lol! @ Russian in French.
Do you know much of the specifics of the alumina and cannabis interaction?
Alumina is very hydrophilic and has good affinity for some color bodies and metals. The larger grain size seems to lead to low hold up in filtration.
I’d really like to see more side by side comparison of alumina and Celite.
Alright. So tomorrow I’m a go!
Gonna run 500g of trim. With, I’m thinking 3 L of cryo-etoh.
I’m thinking I’ll make a cryo-etoh syrup in 2 stainless steel containers, add the material to the first container. Then top off with the second container of syrup and agitate while adding broken up bits of dry ice to maintain syrup consistency for 10 minutes.
My understanding is at this point I’ll have extracted almost everything in it.
Then I’ll lightly squeeze my material bag for maybe 10-30 seconds before getting it into the Panda in 2 separate, even bags, and run the last of the ethanol oil out of it.
While the Panda is running I’ll filter my cryo solution over a coarse filtration paper in 500ml increments(equipment limited size). By the time I’ve filtered the initial extraction it’ll be time to filter what came out of the Panda over coarse filtration.
Then I’ll combine my portions, calculate my estimated maximum yield(figuring 11%) and add enough ethanol to create an estimated 10:1 ratio of ethanol to oil, and put the solution on dry ice for 2 hrs, my understanding is that will be sufficient time to cause the majority of fats to coagulate out without causing any kind of thca crash.
Then I’ll pass the winterized oil over a coarse filter in 500ml increments and combine with 20% t5 to solution to be frozen on dry ice and agitated every 15 minutes for 2 hours before filtering over a 1/2" filter bed of celite topped with 1/8" ac and covered with another coarse filter paper.
If the color isn’t to my liking I figure I’ll mix in another 20% of t5 and return to freezing on dry ice for 24 hrs while agitating once every hour and pour the reprocessed material over the same bed of ac and celite I used before.
Once I’ve achieved an acceptable color in going to drop it into a countertop alcohol distiller inside of a metal container slightly smaller than the interior of my distiller buffered by a layer of water and sitting on small dowels to recover enough ethanol that my oil can still be easily transferred onto a sheet of parchment into:
Big debate here in my mind…
A 1 gal pickle jar laying on its side with a vacuum port on the lid that’s hooked to a 2 stage 6cfm pump and wrapped in a heating pad, or submerged in water heated by a commercial hot holding tray.
A long Pyrex baking dish covered with maybe cling wrap with a single exhaust hole poked in the top and heated with either the heating pad or the water on the commercial hot plate.
Decarbing along the way wouldn’t be too sad as ultimately I want it decarbed enough to go into carts with Floraplex terps. I’m going to be taking a lot of pictures and posting a lot of results of different stages of the process.
I’m almost certain I’ve got a good plan, but please any advice, thoughts, different ideas, are welcome!
Careful with the celite and the carbonic acid from the dry ice. Apparently it has a tendency to dissolve it (via bucket Tek thread?). Might be better off (albeit slower) over a bentonite bed.
I’d be curious to know the difference with and without activated charcoal. Any chance you’d wanna do one with it left out? Or just leave a tiny jar on the side and compare the color?