Hey Errbody . I’ve been reading all night combing thru the archives and that super long CRC thread. A lot of good stuff in there but I’m still not clear exactly how to proceed with this treasure trove of knowledge and apply it specifically to my setup.
Maybe first I should list what I’m working with:
-Bhogart BFE with (2) 6"x48" columns
So ive always been mostly a 100% n propane guy. Been doing it for over 10 years now . I like how fast it runs and the pressure is actually a good thing IMO but you have to be able to manage it. However, on my new setup, I made the mistake of buying (used) an MVP 60 pump not realizing the 60 in the name referred to its PSI limit. SO not good for straight propane. So now I’m stuck with this pump for the moment . I just need to get some funds coming in so I can upgrade to a Corken. In the meanwhile i"m about to invest in a CRC setup. My questions are as follows:
Where and at what point does the nitrogen get introduced into the system?
What kind of hardware do I need for a nitrogen assist setup?
Do I also need to put a dewaxing column in the system before the CRC column?
How would the SOP differ when running straight n-butane vs straight propane vs a blend of the two?
N2 is used pretty much the entire time you’re injecting the butane through the materials and crc stack. Butane at the Temps we work with has no vapor pressure.
N2 tank, regulator, hose, prv’s
No, not necessarily
Only difference I notice between blended and straight n tane is you need higher temps to recover n tane.
Sure, but if you keep your process temp as close to, or under -40C that you can and you will pull the least amount of fats from the biomass through extraction. The higher your process temp gets to -40C and above the more fats you’ll pull.
So basically, if you’re extracting cold, and keeping everything cold you may (or may not) have to winterize anything because there may not be enough fats to affect things
@TNEx
First and foremost I heavily recommend reconsidering using 100% propane and I would even say get rid of it all together. The pressure is a lot to manage and it requires using over a 10:1 ratio of solvent to biomass to even get a full yield out of the plant mass.
With that being said I have had experience with a business owner that swore by propane and had me go through the headache of running -60F propane through a chiller cooled system.
The problem with propane and CRC is that the media provides some resistance and requires a nitrogen assistance on the inlet of the process. You get your operating pressure and add about 50psi.
Well propane’s operating pressure is so high that once you add your nitrogen assistance the whole system is waiting for a reason to spring a leak. If that’s not a problem for you go right ahead.
I do know some people that have used no nitrogen assist on high flow rate powder medias but its always the question of “is this most efficient, or is this just in my current comfort zone.”
The nitrogen is mainly introduced onto the solvent tank, then when the solvent tank is emptied the nitrogen input is put directly onto the material column.
You need a nitrogen bottle, plumbing to tap into the solvent tank and the material column.
Its ideal to have a column where you saturated solvent can homogenize before flowing into your CRC but it isnt required.
There would be some minute differences but it would be to hard to nail all those down in thoery. The main difference would be the pressure differentials are easier to achieve with a lower pressure gas.
Would you say an additional honey pot/ collection vessel in between the column that dumps into the first collection vessel and the CRC column would be a good idea?
Sounds like what I said. Some people have an entire collection vessel after their material columns, before their CRC but I recommend just an extended column above your CRC. Its honestly semantics and not entirely needed but my personal preference.
If you got a smaller setup its very reasonable to just add a small CRC column in the easiest way possible.
Doesn’t @concentratedhumboldt exclusively use propane?
Also, what are you talking about with needing additional pressure with propane? 70 PSI is 70 PSI, and a pressure differential between your collection vessel and your CRC column is the same whether nitro, propane, or butane push through it. I’m not sure you’ve thought this through, despite the experience you mention.
You would absolutely not need “about 50PSI” on top of your pressure from your propane. Hell, you’d get away with pushing with hot propane vapor without any issue. I don’t use nitro for my crc. Just use warm butane vapor to push. Slow, but it’s only about 50 PSI.
I would just run the system mainly passive and use the pump for the last bit of residual vapor . If you invested 20k into passive recovery it would recover faster than the corken .
I run a 100% propane sometimes a lil iso, use no nitro and throttle going through the crc stand afyer going to the main collection pot. Im usually going thru the crc at 75-100 with valves just cracked and have had great results using every powder available on the market.
@anon88836658 The CRC column adds resistance and needs a differential to have a reason to flow through. I find that around 50 psi to be the efficient differential depending on how thick that media bed is.
With that being said the material column will be chilled from injection (low pressure) and the collection heated for recovery (high pressure). The nitrogen assist needs to create that differential based off the collection pots pressure.
I guess there are assumptions in there like are you actively recovering/heating while your running solvent through CRC.
Also after you are done running your gas through the CRC column you still need to pressurize the material columns to push residual solvent out of the biomass and through your CRC eventually. You need pressure for that. Relying on your recovery pump to do all that doesn’t sound efficient.
I’m sure you can finagle some stuff to get hash out the other side messing with gas thermodynamics but this is my advice with the little I know about this guy’s rig.
That’s the same I push through when I’m with butane Doesn’t seem like it’s much harder to make move, at all. PSI is PSI. Notice concentratedhumboldt doesn’t even use nitro with propane. I imagine he uses a warm tank to encourage his cold tank (and his columns) to move. Very easy to hook up a hot tank to your material columns to blast any residual solvent out. Pressure differential will be pretty noticeable between a cold refrigerated column, and your roomtemp tank of propane.
I stand by what I said. The biggest issue with propane is not an especially high PSI from pushing with nitrogen, but the pressure it’ll reach during recovery. 80 PSI is very easy to casually achieve if you are not condensing fast enough.
To be clear, I haven’t used a recovery pump in 6 years. Don’t need one, even when I used propane. Don’t bother to refill my n2 tank, I just push with roomtemp or warm gas. Easily hit 80-100 PSI.
Definitely a few issues in your appraisal of propane, imo. I say it with all respect. You didn’t mention the worst part, spray foam out the dump valve. Shit boils so fast, it makes spray foam hash. First time I tried dumping propane, I got shatter dust in my hair. You can input a lb or two of butane near end of recovery to make handling it easier, but imo, not worth the time or the stress.
I was very impressed, i went below the recommended ratio, it wasnt bad material and it lasted til 11-12. I started to see a lil color but in a good way. I just close off my main recovery vessel and let the hot water continue to run and build the pressure. Im rarely below 80-85 psi when just running. Give the lustermax a shot it is definitely worth every penny. If you run just a small percentage of iso its whats left in my final collection as the propane comes out first i just shut the heat off at a certain point and i can pour/squirt it out no problem
I’ve found that starting recovery about halfway through injection cuts down on time and helps create another pull. I only vent nitro from collection once then if there’s any in the hot collection pot I vent it off the cold solvent tank by opening a valve… You can physically watch the nitro psi go down in ur hot collection pot while venting from the cold solvent tank. Which is much safer bc no vapors come out w it
I have absolutely no need for nitrogen at all, i can run this setup 24/7 and swap every piece out while running. Theres no added benefit for nitro in my set up only added time and money to then have to burp it out.
Doesn’t seem like it’s much harder to make move, at all. PSI is PSI. Notice concentratedhumboldt doesn’t even use nitro with propane. I imagine he uses a warm tank to encourage his cold tank (and his columns) to move. Very easy to hook up a hot tank to your material columns to blast any residual solvent out. Pressure differential will be pretty noticeable between a cold refrigerated column, and your roomtemp tank of propane.